The Forbidden Planet International Blog

I’ve been a fan of Sonny Liew’s ever since I saw his illustrations for Tommy Kovac’s comic adaptation of Alice in Wonderland, for which he was Eisner-nominated.  He is perhaps best known for his work on the Vertigo series My Faith in Frankie with Mike Carey and Marvel Universe comics. Personally, I think his frankly excellent Xeric award-winning book, Malinky Robot, serves as the best example of his capabilities; it was the book where it became clear that he could write too. If you want an example of Liew’s work, that would be the perfect place to start: he showcases his range of styles, world-building and his ability to draw emotion from the seemingly innocuous. In ‘New Year’s Day’, it also includes what remains the cutest, saddest, and most heart-tugging robot story I’ve ever read.

Sonny has a blog which he updates a couple of times a month, and it was here I heard of his new endeavour with publishers Epigram Books. Having moved back to Singapore eight years ago, he has been instrumental in working with Epigram to produce their first ever dedicated comics line. I’ve been trying to learn more about comics produced all around the world and having followed the conception of these comics via Epigram’s Facebook page and Liew’s blog, it seemed the perfect opportunity to educate myself and hopefully shed a little light for others in the process too. This week, then, we’ll be taking a closer look at the finished comics, along with reviews of the books and some commentary provided by the authors. I’ve taken the liberty of naming this series of articles the ’Sinagpore Comics Special’ to easier group them together, but of course there’s lots of good work going on which isn’t featured here and I’ll attempt to highlight some of that on Friday, so keep an eye out.

To kick things off though, an interview with the man himself. This interview was conducted over Skype, so any dis-jointed-ness is all mine- Sonny was very eloquent! After a little confusion over time zones, we managed to get going:

Zainab Akhtar: Okey doke :) I guess we’ll start with Epigram then. How did that come about? Did they contact you and various other creators or was it more collaborative?

Sonny Liew: I think the ball started rolling when I was trying to learn more about the book industry here in Singapore and contacted a bunch of local publishers, Epigram included. One thing led to another, and it was after Edmund Wee (who runs Epigram) read Daniel Clowe’s Mr Wonderful that he realised how interesting comics could be, and had an idea to publish some local works. He got in touch with me to see what possibilities there might be, and I then got in touch with other local creators to see if they might be keen to be part of a project: for the most part there was a lot of enthusiasm, since we’d been complaining for years that local publishers weren’t giving local comics a chance and what publishing there was offered really poor rates or terms. The Epigram project at least tried to give a better advance, with a grant from the Media Development Authority (MDA) helping a lot.

Zainab:  Does that mean you had a hand in guiding which projects/people Epigram decided to go with, or was it more of ‘here’s some talented people doing good stuff you should check out’ and then editorial etc, had final say?

Sonny: Hmm. I mainly helped arrange for the meetings, and helped look through the contract: I used the ones I had with First Second Books, Vertigo etc to try to get a fair deal for everyone involved. There were some growth pangs for sure, the industry here is relatively immature, so there isn’t a big network of editors etc. A friend of mine, Joyce Sim, had done some work though, so we roped her in as editor for the series. There was a bit of learning curve in terms of artists working with an editor for the first time, or of the editor handling artists, but we worked through all of that I think! The brief was simply to have local based creators creating content. No real constraints – so everyone got to do what they wanted. It’s a bit of a a new thing for the publisher, so their approach was pretty open, rather than having strict ideas an identity for the comics as a series. We did discuss that, along with possible imprints and logos, but I think we’re all still feeling our way around comics publishing in Singapore.

Zainab: I can’t imagine how it must feel to have your work edited. I’m the worst personality for that- I just see it as criticism! How do you adjust to someone coming in and pointing out changes or bits that could go on something you’ve worked on for ages and put so much time and effort into?

Sonny: Haha! Well when we started running into issues, I tried to do some research on editing generally, and it seemed that different publishers and countries took different tacks; in Europe it was mostly hands-off, and in Japan, especially with the popular stuff, there’s a lot of editing – the editor practically lives with the artists and both work to try to make sure their comic is popular. It definitely takes some letting go in terms of ownership; it’s a little different with work for hire, like for DC/Marvel etc – there editors look for things like clarity and flow that you have to fix. For more personal work it can get trickier in terms of what you want to say, sometimes something you’ve worked on for a long time feels fixed in your mind and changing it seems very odd, so that usually involves some sort of discussion with the editor on what the principles of making changes are. I guess it can get heated, and the usual rule of thumb on both sides is to pick your battles – to see what changes you can accept even if you don’t quite agree, and which ones you feel strongly about.

Zainab: What is the comics ‘scene’ like in Singapore?

Sonny: The scene… well its dominated by foreign comics mostly – with further divisions between those who read English language comics (so mostly superhero) and those who read Chinese language comics (translated manga and comics from Taiwan and Hong Kong). Local comics have had one or two successes, the main one being a comic called “Mr Kiasu” (by Johnny Lau)back in the 90s, but that was mostly a kids- orientated comic. Things have only started to mature in maybe the last three to five years.

Mr Kiasu created by Johnny Lau

Zainab: Was it a conscious decision on your part to get more involved with local work?

Sonny: Well I started out doing a  comic strip for a local newspaper, with very local content and off and on I’ve done some comics about Singapore so it was kind of in the background. Having moved back to Singapore maybe eight years ago I’ve always hoped that local scene could be improved. One issue we’ve always had was a lack of so called critical mass – with a population of maybe six million (about three mill back in the 80s) , the perception is there isn’t a big enough local market for quite a lot of industries, comics included: that’s something we’ve looked at from all sorts of angles, to see how true it is, what can be done about it. It’s still something we’re trying to figure out! Ultimately you want to tell stories close to home at some level, so it does make sense to try to see if we can work towards an industry that can support local comics.

Zainab: What do you see as the important factors in building a successful comics scene in Singapore?

Sonny: A lot of people here talk about critical mass- the lack of numbers in the population to generate enough local demand. It extends to other industries too – manufacturing for example. Or for the generation for sporting talent. Maybe that’s always going to be a factor. Thee have been successful books and titles, but maybe it takes different strategies. A lot of books do well because of the schools market – rather than bookstore event, schools events are what really helps here – in that sense, comics face a bit of struggle since many school administrations still see them as throwaway juvenile nonsense. We’re trying to work with various organisations like the National Arts Councils to see if we can have events or materials to help change the mindset though.

Zainab: Here in the UK and in the USA there’s a perception that comics are not really a viable literary art-form/medium, whilst in Japan or continental Europe comics are treated with far more respect. Where does the comic medium in Singapore fit on that spectrum….

Sonny: I think most people are exposed to superheroes and newspaper strips for most part, and lot of it is via movies rather than actual comics, so there’s a tendency to see it as a genre rather than a medium. In the last ten to twenty years guys like Chris Ware and Daniel Clowes have raised the medium to a different level, so there definitely is a greater media awareness of what comics can do… every few years you get an article saying comics grow up. But somehow it remains a bit of a schizophrenic identity, maybe due to the popular stuff – shonen manga, superheroes, still take up so much cultural space. Japan and France/Belgium are exceptions to some degree. Here in Singapore, it’s definitely still seen as a juvenile medium. One issue we’re trying to address now is how we can get the comics into schools – book sales here are often dependent on doing school events, but the publisher has run into problems with schools rejecting comics, so we’ve just started talking with the ‘authorities’ (really the National Arts Council) to see what we can do to try to change that mindset. If we can’t get comics into schools, sales will be a problem, and sustaining comics publishing problematic in the long run.

Zainab: Yeah, my sister’s a teacher and I’ve recently helped her draw up a list of comics to buy for her school, and one of the things she was saying is that they have to try and tie them in with lessons and curriculum in some way to sort of make them viable and justify their use…

Sonny: Yes I think if you can tie it in with lessons it definitely helps. There’s a slightly different issue for local publishers as well though, that they want to change mindsets not just about comics, but local comics in particular. I’m not sure how widespread a thing it is, but in Singapore there’s a tendency to look for approval from outside – writers, artists, film makers – very often have to ‘make it’ elsewhere, the US, Taiwan, etc. otherwise there’s always a suspicion that they’re not quite good enough. Having said that, the quality and amount of comics coming from Singapore has been lacking somewhat in the past -  actually once I start talking about it gets a bit muddled in my head! As mentioned “Mr Kiasu” did do very well back in the 90s – and some local books do very well, in general though they’re kids targeted books – which ties back to the issue of getting sold in schools. For more adult or literary titles I’m not sure what the solution is, maybe to try to do works that are both local yet have international outreach, like Persepolis or Barefoot Gen.

Page from New Year’s Day, a short story in Liew’s Malinky Robot

Zainab: They must listen to you, then, surely?!

Sonny: Haha, well I try to give some feedback once in a while, but in truth I think you’d need a Tezuka-like figure to really change things here ie: comics that sell by the truckload and make the creators fabulously rich!

Zainab: Which is the reverse here – people say kids don’t read comics anymore. But there you’ve got a kind of strange dichotomy, as it sounds like they need to market to kids, but one of the issues with comics is convincing people they’re for everyone and not just for kids. Puts you in a quandary of sorts.

Sonny: Well the main thing now is to get it into schools – there are junior colleges as well for more adult books perhaps. I think it’s about getting everyone to see that comics aren’t just throwaway juvenile nonsense. I guess the truth is no one’s really figured out how to create a mature, stable, comics industry here in Singapore yet, so we’re all just trying our best here and there to get things going. Even the established industries experiencing transitional pains with ebooks etc its kinda a wild wild west right now.

Zainab: Here’s something I wanted to ask you: I read in an interview that you thought ‘authors sometimes end up getting tied in these woolly, metaphysical ideas’ at the expense of the story. I read quite a few books I don’t get, and while sometimes I accept it’s just a matter of taste etc, I do think there can be a lot of pretension – what do you think is the balance in getting those sort of complex ideas right?  Warren Ellis recently said pretension is a way of saying your act of ambition makes me uncomfortable…

Sonny: Hmmm. Unless you’re writing academic essays, trying to explore complex ideas will always lead to some simplification if the medium is a narrative story. Maybe its the choice of narratives ideas that’s the key- like Matrix one did it well, and Matrix 2 and 3 got a bit garbled. It’s also a formal thing – for example, Chris Ware and Daniel Clowes and  Art Speigelman- all experiment with form so the ideas are explored on both a narrative and formal level – and their stories can carry the weight of their complex ideas. Whereas the ones which I find muddled are usually the say, sci-fi European narratives that explore big ideas but are essentially straightforward narratives in form. You’re drawn in by the nice art and action, but sometimes when they push towards more complex ideas it can feel a bit forced. Not sure if that makes sense – I’ve only just thought about it that way! then again just because you play with form doesn’t mean you can carry it off either – some of the stuff I see in Kramer’s Ergot I’m totally baffled by.

Zainab: Absolutely! Sci-fi seems to attract that. Read a comic recently and I didn’t know if it was just me being thick, but it was so muddled, and I have no idea what it was about. Then the guy who wrote it was on twitter saying he’d just been counting the themes in that issue and he counted 20, and I wasn’t really sure what to feel…I don’t know why there’s some things you can be baffled by, but you’re okay with it, but some things you see and think- God, no.

Sonny: Haha, yes that’s an odd thing isn’t it. Or even highly celebrated things, sometimes you feel , yes, it’s all justified, sometimes you think, what the hell is everyone else thinking? But some editor or publisher liked it enough to publish it - maybe its back to  aesthetic value – the odd thing is that both must be objective yet subjective at the same time. 

Zainab: You’re working on a book with Gene Yang for First Second  and also your Epigram book which is a ‘ retrospective’ on Charlie Chan? What was the thinking behind that latter choice: I’m guessing the opportunity was there for you to publish some original work if you wanted?

Sonny: I’m working on the last chapter (of six) now, it should be out early next year!  As for Charlie Chan, it’s actually something I’d wanted to work on for a long time, but the local content meant that I didn’t think it would work for publishers outside Singapore – so when Epigram came along, it seemed  a good fit. He worked from the 1950s through to the 90s – with quite a few genres and styles – from early Tezuka-inspired comics that were a reaction to the political upheaval in Singapore at the time, to superhero comics (inspired by the Marvel output) and alternative histories (exploring what-if scenarios in Singapore’s development) – most of it is tied to changes in Singapore, and its rather curious system that’s been sometimes called “authoritarian democracy”! Working on it though, I do think it’ll be an interesting book if all the parts come together eventually: I think it’ll be a culmination in many ways of all the stuff I’ve been working on up till now… so fingers crossed!

Preview pages from Liew’s upcoming book with Epigram, due for release in April

Zainab: Will Epigram be continuing their comics line, or does it depend on the success of this venture?

Zainab: My friend Andy thinks I should have signature questions, you know those oddball ‘fun’ type things- but I have no imagination. So I’m just gonna ask- what have you been reading lately?

Sonny: Haha that’s like the Guardians what would you put in room 101…

Zainab: If there’s anything you have a burning urge to share- please do!!!

Sonny: Lets see…. recent reading… John Truby’s Anatomy of Story- I’m trying to do longer narratives, so I’ve been getting a better grip on storytelling theory:  its a wider issue from thinking about storytelling in animations for example, the logic behind say Pixar’s storytelling choices, or the difference between a Disney and Miyazaki film. Oh, I read the Dark Horse collection of the Perry Bible Fellowship recently, some of it was excellent. I’ve been reading a lot of Singaporean history books to get a better sense of the times of Chan Hock Chye (the gap between oral history memory and truth being one issue) llen Say’s Drawing from Memory and Jiro Taniguichi’s  A Zoo in Winter. And I’d put Ethan Hawke in Room 101!

Zainab: It is 101! Man, I don’t think Room 101 is big enough for all the things I’d put in there!  Thank you so much for your time.

You can find Sonny’s blog here (there’s currently glimpses of some super-looking pages from his book with Gene Yang on there, which try as I might, couldn’t find space for on here)

Visit Epigram’s site for more information on their books here and keep an eye out for the rest of the Sinagpore Comics Special this week.